[stephpd]

WoW! Both of these are not worth repeating. Rights have nothing, and I repeat nothing, with deserving them. you really need to reread the Declaration of Independence!

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

These can't be taken away! You're born with them and will die with them. That you believe that we the people should use Government powers to restrict or remove themis so far from these words that I'm highly offended.

That was great stephpd!!! I am NOT mocking, I could almost see you in front of me saying these words!

I agree with almost everthing I am quoting above, with the exception that there are situations where your rights can, are, and will be taken away from you. One good example is Life with death penalty.

No offense taken. And yes if we were standing and talking I'd be just as fervent in my position. I welcome you, and all here, to come out to some of the meetings. You'll find a wide range of opinions on most anything. It's always better in person then through the screen. Some things can get more heated on the forum then in real life, FTF, since communication is mostly body language, inflection and a host of other thins besides just words. The meetings are much more tame and friendly then here.

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Same can be said for doing jail time and having rights removed. But you'll also find many here that think they should be restored upon release. But the reasons why these rights are removed has more to do with the fact that the person has done something so extreme that warrants it. Society believes that there should be punishment for heinous crimes.

But exercising rights should never be an excuse to remove them, or they aren't rights. You may be correct in that this was more for show then just self protection. But I see it as a move in the right direction. For to long it's been pressed upon gun owners that they need to hide their guns. But this grass roots movement is outside the normally accepted realm of society. It's started, growing and adding new members everyday. This one act probably gained more folks sympathy then turn against it. No matter what the press may be screaming.

I'm fairly new to gun ownership, though I grew up with them. I have no fear of what they can do because I've seen it and participated when hunting as a child. But the similarities between this OC movement and the 'Shall issue' movement can't be avoided. I've personally seen in the last few years more folks start OC'ing because of the work of a few. Even the opinions on gun boards has changed. The remarks for why you shouldn't stay they same(CC or OC) but they become less strong the more they're repeated and folks find that it's all hyperbole.

This forum is to new to go back to when OC was just beginning. But the PA site isn't. But the theme song from the anti gun crowd stays the same, no matter how far back you search. By the repetition of it it was able to split the gun crowd over CC. The words of 'ruining it for all of us' was very frequent. Or that ''this could be bad and we'll see more of our rights restricted.'

I was reading an old book from the 40's and was amazed that the theme song of the anti's was just as prevalent then as now. And it was the same song. Same phrases, same ideals. Problem was that then the press (back then) wasn't on board. But years of hearing the same thing repeated tends to form in peoples mind.

Now with the internet you get a chance to hear stuff that's not part to the mind control business. The distance between these like minded individuals has been narrowed. Even though the press berates these folks for a legal activity it has an effect on those in states where they can't do this. And they want to. So being law abiding they are pushing to get it back. It also encourages other that can but were afraid.

Why else would the press put so much time and effort into trying to sway folks minds that this is wrong? And who are they representing if they are against people exercising a legal and lawful right? They've spent a good deal of the last week telling everyone not to do this , although grudgingly admitting that it's legal.

[stephpd]

Another epic thread on DELOC.

Carry on, gentlemen. And thank you for keeping it civil and friendly.

I just wish I knew how to type. This hunt and peck slows me down and limits my ability to post quickly. By the time I get done with a short rant several other post pop up.

[Condition1]

....
These rights were endowed by our Creator through the ink and pen of our founding father's whom he used to build and mold this great country of ours. These same rights can be taken away by our Creator as he sees fit. If He sees fit to allow the use of the death penalty to take away a life as He deems appropriate, then you argument is with God...not Stephpd

Edited....

.... this can go on and on and on.... We can reason on pretty much anything, any definition, the way we want and appeal to us!

[Condition1]

I just wish I knew how to type. This hunt and peck slows me down and limits my ability to post quickly. By the time I get done with a short rant several other post pop up.

I cannot imagine how would be if you could type faster!!!

[cappilot06]

I usually type as fast as I can becuase my thoughts fly through my head so fast, if i don't get them down quick, I forget what my train of thought was.lol. Of course this had a tendency to backfire on me now and then....I usually type like I talk and half the time my mouth works faster than my brain.

[Condition1]

I usually type as fast as I can becuase my thoughts fly through my head so fast, if i don't get them down quick, I forget what my train of thought was.lol. Of course this had a tendency to backfire on me now and then....I usually type like I talk and half the time my mouth works faster than my brain.

I tend do the same thing sometimes...

[stephpd]

I just wish I knew how to type. This hunt and peck slows me down and limits my ability to post quickly. By the time I get done with a short rant several other post pop up.

I cannot imagine how would be if you could type faster!!!

Being Bipolar there is no way I can even talk as fast as I think. Those racing thoughts can lead to 20-30 simultaneous conversations going on in my head. I have to severely edit them just to be able to talk without it being all muddled, stuttered and incoherent.

I do think I do better in a conversation then posting. Each one of these long posts will take me 1/2 hour to type, rearrange , check spelling, (I'm dyslexic on a keyboard) and try to make some sense as to a line of thought before even posting. Then I read it, see all sorts of errors and go back and correct them just so it might make some sense (hopefully ).

[cappilot06]

I don't think you need to worry about your writing. You have written some of the most coherent and well thought out posts lately that I've seen. I only wish I could voice half the things I'm thinking so well. Once again, my problem is that I'm usually so quick to make a point that I don't take the time I need.

A well thought out argument is much better than a hastily put together one.

Keep em coming!!!

[scampbell3]

“I would really like more info on that (sources). Maybe I am wrong, please correct me if I am, but I can point out a couple of instances where your 2A rights have been taken away - states not allowing you to carry a firearm anymore, the requirement for you to have a license to carry concealed, the proposals to control the number of firearms you can have, control on what kind of ammo you can have, number of rounds per mag ....”

There is no doubting the fact that there is a continual push to further erode our unalienable rights, but there also has been a good amount of legislation in state and local governments and some at the federal level that are 2A friendly.

You asked for sources:

National Shooting Sports Foundation - http://www.nssf.org/
Defends and promotes America's hunting and shooting traditions. Includes news and press releases.

National Rifle Association (NRA) - http://www.nra.org
News, hunting, shooting sports, firearm laws, research, and membership information.

NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund - http://www.nradefensefund.org/
Provides legal and financial assistance to selected individuals and organizations defending their right to keep and bear arms. Additionally, the Fund sponsors legal research and education on a wide variety of gun-related issues, including the meaning of the Second Amendment and nature of the right to keep and bear arms provisions in state constitutions.

Gun Owners of America - http://www.gunowners.org/
A no-compromise national gun rights organization. Legislative updates, editorials and FAQs.

Second Amendment Foundation - http://www.saf.org/
Seeks to promote a better understanding of firearms rights through educational and legal action. Editorials, publications, and news.

NRA Institute for Legislative Action - http://www.nraila.org/
The lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association. News article links, press releases, research library, legislative updates, contribution form, events calendar, firearms glossary, and FAQs page.

Keep and Bear Arms - http://www.keepandbeararms.com/
News, articles, essays, links, and more, dedicated to the preservation of gun rights.

Illinois State Rifle Association - http://www.isra.org/
NRA affiliated gun group. News, legislative updates, and activities calendar.

NRA WinningTeam.com - http://www.nrawinningteam.com/
Special reports, commentary, news items, and legislative alerts.

GOAL: Gun Owners' Action League - http://www.goal.org/
GOAL is the Massachusetts State Firearms Association.

Citizens Committee Right to Keep and Bear Arms - http://www.ccrkba.org/
Offers books, discusses legal issues, current and proposed legislation on the right to keep and bear arms.

Second Amendment Sisters: Armed Informed Mothers March - http://www.2asisters.org/
Countering the 'Million Moms' providing information and education.

Jews For The Preservation Of Firearms Ownership - http://www.jpfo.org/
Brief articles discussing the Holocaust, genocide, and their relationship to gun control. Books, pamphlets and T-shirts offered for sale.

Texas Rifle Association - http://www.tsra.com/
Supporting gun rights of law abiding Texans.

Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership - http://www.claremont.org/projects/doctors/index.html
A nationwide network of over 1,000 physicians and other health professionals who support the safe and lawful use of firearms.

Pink Pistols - http://www.pinkpistols.org
FAQ, press releases, email list, starting a chapter, and advice on breaking-down barriers.

Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL) - http://www.vcdl.org/
Membership and meeting information, alerts, and online newsletter,

MCRGO: Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners - http://www.mcrgo.org
Promoting "responsible, legal ownership and usage of firearms through education and legislative action."

Mayors Against Illegal Guns - http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org ... home.shtml
Featured mayors, federal, state, and local legislation.

Women Against Gun Control - http://wagc.com/index.html
Commentary, companies to boycott, self-defense anectdotes, and membership information.

Law Enforcement Alliance of America - http://www.leaa.org/
A coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens supporting legislation at every level of government that reduces violent crime while preserving the rights of all citizens, including self-defense.

New York State Rifle and Pistol Organization - http://www.nysrpa.org/
NRA afiliated state association.

Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights - http://www.io.com/~velte/pt.htm
A grassroots politically active group dedicated to pro-gun rights.

Canada - Law-abiding Unregistered Firearms Association - http://www.lufa.ca
Fighting to rescind Canada's gun registration law. Includes news, forum and contact form.

Mothers Arms - http://www.mothersarms.org
Supports development of self-reliant women who consider self-defense a right and responsibility. Includes a few essays on guns and self-defense.

Second Amendment Police Department - http://www.2ampd.net/
Provides a political voice for American police officers who believe in personal freedoms, liberty and independence for all American citizens.

Tennessee Firearms Association - http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/
Information regarding the safe and responsible use of firearms, covering laws, regulations, gunshows, gun clubs and other firearm related activities.

Liberty Belles - http://www.libertybelles.org
News, events, fact sheets, and downloadable flyers.

Women's Firearm Network - http://www.womenshooters.com/
Provides firearms, self-defense, and training information. Articles, events, and seminars.

Oregon State Shooting Association - http://www.ossa.org/
Dedicated to advancing pro-gun and pro-hunting programs and defeating anti-gun and anti-hunting legislation throughout Oregon.

Stonewall Shooting Sports of Utah - http://www.stonewallshootingsportsutah.org/
Gender and sexual-minority firearm advocates and owners.

Students for the Second Amendment - http://www.sf2a.org
Centered in Texas. Events and news releases,

Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs - http://www.pfsc.org/
Providing a statewide, united voice for the concerns of all sportsmen and conservationists.

Rocky Mountain Gun Owners - http://www.rmgo.org/
Colorado's only no-compromise gun rights lobby.

Ohio - Buckeye Firearms Association - http://www.buckeyefirearms.org
News, commentary, and legislative updates.

Gun Owners of California - http://www.gunownersca.com/
Gun Owners of America affiliate. Featuring legislative updates and news.

Concealed Carry, Inc. - http://www.concealcarry.org/
"Saving lives by arming citizens," this grassroots group is dedicated to passing a concealed carry law in the 19 states not having one.

Shooters Committee on Political Education - http://www.scopeny.org/
New York State gun rights organization. Legislation, news, opinion, and chapter listing.

Golden Gate United NRA Members' Council (San Francisco, CA) - http://www.ggnra.org/
The Golden Gate United NRA Members Council is a voluntary legislative action group.

NRA Members' Council of Westside Los Angeles - http://www.nrawestla.org/
Time, day, and contact phone number for organization's monthly meeting.

Ohioans for Concealed Carry - http://www.ohioccw.org/
Coordinating volunteers to fight for concealed carry legislation. Includes, tips on petition distribution, billboard construction (on private property), and gun safety training class schedules.

Madison Society - http://www.madison-society.org/
Educating the public and challenging anti-gun legislation in court at all levels of California government.

Gun Owners of New Hampshire - http://www.gonh.org/
Works to protect and defend the rights of law-abiding citizens to own and to use firearms.

Gun News Daily.com - http://www.gunnewsdaily.com/
Gun control news and commentary from around the world.

NRA Members' Councils of California - http://nramemberscouncils.com/
Daily gun news headlines, essays and resources.

Western Missouri Shooters Alliance - http://www.wmsa.net/
A not-for-profit corporation informing Missouri citizens about firearms legislation.

Amendment II Democrats - You Have the Right - http://www.a2dems.net/
Attempting to effect changes in the Democratic party's gun control policy from a grass-roots level.

Guns Save Life dot com - http://www.gunssavelife.com
A branch of the Illinois State Rifle Association. Local, national, and international gun rights information.

Grass Roots North Carolina - http://www.grnc.org/
Volunteer organization devoted to educating the public and engaging in grassroots activism to preserve firearms rights.

Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed, Inc - http://www.kc3.com/
A plethora of good information on concealed carry in Kentucky and other states.

Georgia Sport Shooting Association - http://www.gssa.com/
Official NRA state affiliated organization.

Montgomery Citizens for a Safer Maryland - http://www.mcsm.org/source.html
Grassroots movement to preserve gun rights.

Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association - http://www.pafoa.org/
The Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association is a grass-roots non-profit organization created with the goal of preserving the individual right to keep and bear arms.

Second Amendment Coalition of Missouri - http://www.sacmo.org/
An all-volunteer, grassroots, regionally based organization that seeks to give a political voice to Missouri gun owners.

Maryland Citizens for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms - http://www.mcrkba.org
Provides information on members of the Maryland Legislature, new candidate and incumbent ratings, gun legislation, history, and gun crime analysis reports.

Illinois concealed carry - http://www.illinoiscarry.com
News, events, legislation, and a discussion forum.

People's Rights Organization - http://www.peoplesrights.org
Ohio gun rights organization. Mission statement, meeting schedule, and activities the group is involved with, are posted.

Armed & Secure - http://www.armedandsecure.org
Produces radio and TV advertisements (available online). Site includes a broadcast schedule.

Minnesota Concealed Carry Reform - http://www.mnccrn.org/
Attempting to convert Minnesota to a "Shall Issue" state similar to Washington State.

American Firearms Institute - http://www.americanfirearms.org
Firearms information, statistics, law, and opinion.

Gun Owners of South Carolina - http://www.gosc.org/
Meeting announcements and state-related NRA-ILA alerts.

Virginia Shooting Sports Association - http://www.myvssa.org
The State Affiliate Association of the NRA

South Carolina, Grass Roots - http://www.scfirearms.org/index.html
Organized to improve all aspects of lawful ownership and carrying of firearms in South Carolina.

Georgia Carry - http://georgiacarry.org
News and comments.

Shooters' Alliance for Firearm Rights - http://www.firearmsalliance.org
Michigan group. Newsletter, action alerts, discussion forum, and member articles.

The New Jersey Coalition for Self Defense - http://www.njcsd.org
Events, membership FAQ, and funding page.

Delaware State Sportsmen's Association - http://www.delsports.net
Legislative activity, candidate endorsements, and online membership application.

North Carolina Rifle & Pistol Association - http://www.ncrpa.org/
Organization formed to defend gun rights and promote shooting sports. Affiliated with the National Rifle Association and the Director of Civilian Marksmanship.

Firearms Coalition - http://www.firearmscoalition.org/
Legislative updates, e-mail alerts, editorials and online bulletins.

Promoting Reform Of Iowa Weapons Laws - http://www.iowacarry.org/
Promoting reform of weapons carry laws.

Armed Citizens of Chicago - http://armedcitizensofchicago.typepad.com/
Provides news, information, and perspective on the current state of gun rights, self-defense as a basic human right, and crime in the City of Chicago.

Oregon Firearms Federation - http://oregonfirearms.org
Legislative alerts, gun laws, and gun rights activities pertaining to Oregon.

Gunsafe: Connecticut families for responsible gun ownership - http://gunsafe.org/
Connecticut residents helping the press, the politicians, and the public understand the positive side of gun ownership.

Second Amendment Coalition of Florida - http://www.sacfla.org/
Our primary mission is to ensure the survival and recognition of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the united states of America.

Gateway Civil Liberties Alliance - http://www.gclastl.org/
Missouri based, legislative updates and newsletter.

National Association for Gun rights - http://nationalgunrights.org/
News and federal legislation.

Gun Owners Alliance - http://www.gunownersalliance.com/
Collection of essays from the Web and news items with a Christian perspective.

Contra Costa County, California NRA Members' Council - http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/contracosta/
Events and links to other NRA groups.

Utah Shooting Sports Council - http://utahshootingsports.com/
Representing the citizens of Utah who safely and legally own and use firearms. Gun safety, firearms, and shooting sports information.

Colorado State Shooting Association - http://www.cssa.org/
Legislative news.

Gun Owners of Nevada - http://www.gonv.org/index.htm
Legislative alerts, gun laws, and gun rights activities.

Kentucky Firearms Foundation - http://www.kyfirearms.org/
News, legislative updates, upcoming events, and editorials.

Allegheny County Sportsmen's League - http://www.acslpa.org
Legislative alerts, news releases, and legislative summaries.

Citizens For a Safer Oklahoma - http://www.geocities.com/cfso_march/
"Live free or die march - An Armed Informed Mother's march" in Oklahoma.

Washington State Tyranny Response Team - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wstrt-discussion/
Mission statement, events, news, letters, articles, and links.

Law Students for the Second Amendment - http://www.gmu.edu/org/ls2a/
George Mason University School of Law organization. Officers and events listed.

This is only a short list of sources for someone to find pro 2A legislation, updates, and actions on those that would further erode our 2A rights.

[stephpd]

WTH is the 'Mayors Against Illegal Guns' doing on that list?

They go on the other list.